Monday, February 28, 2011

Valencia CF vs FC Barcelona - Match Preview (vcf - fcb)

La liga matchday 26, Valencia CF vs FC Barcelona
Valencia CF biggest match in the Spanish league is almost here. Valencia CF has not won the Spanish league since the season 2003-04, while FC Barcelona has been dominating domestically and internationally the past few seasons with huge achievements such as winning  6 trophies in one season and braking all records in all competitions.

Valencia CF gets 40 million TV rights money, Barcelona gets 140 million TV rights money. Valencia champions league qualification is considered a success, while for Barca winning only La Liga is somewhat of a dissapointment.
The contrast between these two clubs is huge, especially in recent years, but when these two sides meet on the grass what matters is only the performance on the pitch and nothing else.

Valencia CF is currently on an unbeaten streak from December 5th and last time it lost was against R. Madrid in the Spanish League. Clearly there is bonus motivation in this match in order to keep that unbeaten streak and at least get a draw, but why not even surprise us all and beat Barcelona.

The first match between these two teams played at the Camp Nou ended in a narrow 2-1 victory for Barcelona. You can check the match report for that game here.



POS
TEAMPWDLFA
WDLFA
WDLFA
GDPts
1 Barcelona 25 22 2 1 76 13
11 1 1 36 8
11 1 0 40 5
63 68
2 Real Madrid 25 19 4 2 55 19
12 0 0 37 6
7 4 2 18 13
36 61
3 Valencia 25 15 6 4 40 26
8 4 1 23 13
7 2 3 17 13
14 51

Head to Head
DateHome
AwayCompetition
Oct 16, 2010FC Barcelona 2 : 1 Valencia CF   Primera Division
Mar 14, 2010FC Barcelona 3 : 0 Valencia CF   Primera Division
Oct 17, 2009Valencia CF    0 : 0   FC BarcelonaPrimera Division
Apr 25, 2009Valencia CF    2 : 2 FC BarcelonaPrimera Division
Dec 06, 2008FC Barcelona 4 : 0 Valencia CF   Primera Division
May 04, 2008FC Barcelona 6 : 0 Valencia CF   Primera Division
Mar 20, 2008Valencia CF    3 : 2   FC BarcelonaCopa del Rey
Feb 27, 2008FC Barcelona 1 : 1 Valencia CF   Copa del Rey

Valencia CF is going into this match with the intention of continuing its unbeaten run and apart from a loss it will be good enough to get even a draw and not to mention a surprise win, that would be huge.

Chori and Miguel are still suspended by the coach and its doubtful if they will get called to the squad, Bruno and Topal will miss the match due to 5 yellow cards each and David Albelda is still injured.

Valencia CF squad:
Goalkeepers: César, Guaita.
Defense: Navarro, Delabert, Ricardo Costa, Stankevicius, Jordi Alba, Mathieu, Maduro, Montoro.
Midfield: Tino Costa, Ever, Joaquín, Pablo, Vicente, Mata.
Attack: Isco, Jonas, Soldado.
*Maduro was injured during the last training before the match and Montoro took his place.

FC Barcelona on the other hand are coming in this match as the hot favorites to win and get the three points, but the Mestalla has been a tough venue for them in recent years, Barcelona are in a bit of match fatigue right now as several of their players have played for over 90% of the matches for the team, players such as Iniesta, Messi, Busquets and Villa.

David Villa may miss the match as he has some personal business to attend to, Victor Valdez is also missing and Pinto will once again be on the goal, Xavi has been training and regaining fitness, so he may be fit to play after all even though he was injured and thought to be missing for 2 weeks.

FC Barcelona squad:
Goalkeepers: Pinto, Miño
Defense: Dani Alves, Piqué, Gabi Milito, Maxwell, Adriano, Abida.
Midfield: Xavi, Iniesta, Mascherano,  Keita, Busquets, Afella.
Attack: David Villa, Bojan, Messi, Pedro.

Interviews and conferences:

Valencia CF player, Joaquin Sanchez
  • Valencia winger Joaquin has suggested that his side cannot afford to lose to Barcelona when they host the Spanish champions at the Mestalla in a Spanish Primera Division encounter on Wednesday.
  • It is three points we can't afford to let slip from our grasp," said the 29-year-old, according to AFP.
  • "We will suffer a lot because they are a great team but we are going to try to impose our style of football.
  • "If we can make them feel uncomfortable we have a great chance of winning."
Valencia CF coach, Unai Emery
  • "If Barcelona keep possesion as usual, then we are cannon fodder," Emery said ahead of tomorrow's battle at the Mestalla.
  • "It will be important to see our personality and the state of the pitch. We know Barcelona will create chances, but we have to avoid goals.
  • "We must also try to get close to their goal. We have to maintain the ball and we know we can do this.
  • "They are the best team in the world with the best players in the world and have one of the best coaches in the world."
Barcelona player, David Villa
  • "I don’t want to leave a bad taste in people’s mouths, so I won’t celebrate if I do score a goal."
  • "It will be a weird sensation, for example, going to the dressing rooms”and having to go to the visitors and not the home one."

      Valencia CF Technical:
      Formation: 5-2-3
      Line up: Guaita; ?, Navarro, R. Costa, Dealbert, Mathieu; Maduro, Banega; Joaquin, Soldado, Pablo.
      Tactics: High attacking frequency by the full backs, low defensive line and own half opposing team pressure, deep zone defensive midfielders, wing attacks, mixed passing with mixed crossing.
      In order to win or even draw against Barcelona, Valencia must beat them at their own game. This means Valencia can't sit back and defend and with VCF defenders conceding a goal is certain, so Valencia must have big possession and pressure Barcelona constantly when they have the ball.

      Result prediction:
      Valencia CF 1-1 FC Barcelona

      Sunday, February 27, 2011

      Atletico Bilbao 1-2 Valencia CF - Match Report

      First of all my prediction of 1-2 was right on the money. Every one that listened to my prediction is going to count his money tomorrow and be double happy as Valencia CF won and he got some money.

      Anyways Valencia CF did not start the match too convincingly, in fact Bilbao had most of the possesion, but also an early chance in the 3rd minute when an attack from the right side started after Bruno shifted position when a pass was sent towards him.

      Bilbao kept pressing and had another chance in the 7th minute, but Valencia CF goalkeeper Vicente Guaita made a wonderful save to keep Valencia in the match.

      Valencia's defense was shaky to say the least and in the 13th minute after a mistake by Stankevicious and then Navarro, Llorente managed to score for Atletico Bilbao.

      Valencia CF tried to reply and had the first real chance in the 20th minute when Pablo released Joaquin alone in front of Bilbao's goal, but he somehow managed to dribble himself and screw the chance.

      Bilbao had few more attacks and one chance in the 35th minute, but nothing serious and then only a minute after in a rare Valencia CF attack Pablo had a shot towards Bilbao's goal.

      Then in the 42 minute Atletico Bilbao had a wonderful chance in which Lopez released a shot, but Guaita was in place to save. A minute previously Valencia CF had a penalty claim that the referee ignored.

      Pablo was really active in this first half and all of the chances came through him and he also had the final shot for Valencia in the 44th minute, but couldn't really do damage.

      Just before the end Guaita made a bad pass, Muniain got the ball, then passes to Llorente, but he was blocked by Stankevicious in what was probably the only good defensive move in the first half.

      Second half started much like the first, though Bilbao was visibly more relaxed and content with their result, which will ultimately prove costly for them.

      Bilbao had few chances in the first 15 minuted, a header, a shot towards Guaita, but nothing too serious.
      Toquero had a dangerous dribbling in the 62th minute and managed a shot, but only to Guaita, who was once again alert and caught the ball.

      Mata had a dangerous shot 1 minute after and then the substitutions started with Jonas coming in for Pablo. In the same minute Llorente had a dangerous shot in which Guaita was beaten, but the ball hit the woodwork.

      And then in the first real chance for Valencia in the 70th minute, Soldado made a nice back pass to Joaquin who finally made a decent cross which found Mata, this oe shot and scored. It was Atletico Bilbao 1, valencia CF 1. Valencia CF managed to draw and everyone in the Valencia CF camp could breathe easier.

      Ever Banega went out for Tino Costa and the match changed for the better for Valencia CF.
      First Joaquin combined well with Tino who shot towards Bilbao goal, but just couldn't penetrate the goal, but in the second try in the 80th minute Tino released a powerful shot which Iraizos could only reflect to the oncoming Jonas who easily slotted the ball in the net, it was 2-1 for Valencia.

      The final 10+5 minutes were mostly Bilbao attacks but Valencia CF managed to last and ultimately win.


      Technical details:
      Athletic Club (1): Iraizoz; De Marcos, San José, Ekiza, Koikili; David López (Susaeta, min.72), Gurpegui, Javi Martínez, Muniain (Díaz de Cerio, min.83); Toquero (Gabilondo, min.75) y Llorente.

      Valencia CF (2): Guaita; Bruno, Stankevicius, David Navarro, Mathieu (Jordi Alba, min.73); Topal, Banega (Tino Costa, min.77); Joaquín, Mata, Pablo Hernández (Jonas, min.63); y Soldado.

      Goals: 14th min. Llorente 1-1; 71th min, Mata 1-1; 81st min, Jonas 1-2.
       
      Player ratings:
      Guaita 8 - Made 2 wonderful saves, plus a few more less wonderful, but equally important saves.
      Bruno 5 - Had trouble keeping Muniain in check and more often than not was beaten.
      Navarro 4.5 - Not an assuring performance from the captain. He and Stankevicious made a mess of Llorente's goal.
      Stankevicious 4 - Bad in defense, but was also let down by Mathieu who should have been more back, since he wasn't really doing anything in attack, except standing around.
      Mathieu 4 - Probably the weak link in defense tonight, Stankevicious had to cover each and every time for him and didn't really offer much in attack either.
      Topal 6 - Somewhat efficient in his defensive duties, marked Llorente on set piece balls, but did a poor job at it. Had very little understanding with Banega, but generally useful.
      Banega 4 - Nothing positive tonight. He could not control the proceedings, lost quite a bit of balls and rarely linked up the midfield and attack.
      Joaquin 6.5 - First half performance was poor, but improved immensely in the second and his direct running caused Bilbao defense a lot of problems, made the assist for the first goal.
      Mata 6 - Barely visible in the first half, improved a little in the second half, but other than the goal wasn't very influential.
      Pablo 6 - Was the best player in the first half for Valencia, mysteriously substituted in the second half.
      Soldado 4 - Frustrated from the 1st minute to the last. Made one great move though that kick-started the whole action that led to Mata's goal.
      Subs:
      Jonas 6.5 - Made the difference between a draw and a win. At the right place and the right time to score after Iraizoz reflected a powerful Tino Costa shot.
      Alba 5 - Better than Mathieu, though had one lapse when everyone went forward to create a offside trap, but Jordi went backwards, lucky that Valencia did not concede a goal at that moment or his career could have been over.
      Tino Costa 7 - Really spiced up Valencia's play, made two trademark shots, one of which Iraizoz could not manage to catch and the reflection ended up to Jonas who score the winning goal.

      Atletico vs Valencia CF live chat

      Well I'm going to try and set up a live chat for all the matches Valencia CF plays from now on...

      Depending on the interest or lack thereof is going to decide the future of this live chat, but hopefully it gains momentum and everyone can also broadcast the match, so maybe I'll even start broadcasting in high definition to gather some interest, or maybe someone else will do it.

      Saturday, February 26, 2011

      Atletico Bilbao vs Valencia CF - Match Preview

      Atletico Bilbao will host Valencia CF tomorrow night at San Mames stadium in what Fernando Llorente describes as a "huge match". Llorente is hoping that Bilbao will return to their unbeatable home form they are known for and win against Valencia CF.

      Atletico Bilbao are currently 5th at the table with 38 points, 10 less than Valencia CF and a win for both sides would be huge. For Bilbao it would mean they will theoretically escape Espanyol, given they loose of course and come closer to the 3rd and 4th spot teams and fight for position that leads in the champions league.

      Atletico Bilbao is very strong up front with 38 goals scored, same as Valencia CF, but they are somewhat worse in defense with 34 goals conceded.

      Their most dangerous player and their top scorer all in one is Fernando Llorente who Atletico Bilbao relies upon heavily to score goals. If he is neutralized Valencia will have a much easier time and a win will be very likely.

      Another dangerous player is Andoni Iraola who has 6 assists so far, has scored 3 goals and is one of the staples for Atletico Bilbao having started in all 24 matches this season. He is actually a defender but with his stats he should be carefully covered.

      Bilbao are currently on a 2 match loosing streak, having lost to Mallorca and Barcelona away, but those were close matches in which Atletico Bilbao had chances to win.


      Atletico Bilbao squad:
      Goalkeepers: Iraizoz, Raúl
      Defense: Koikili, Amorebieta, San José, Balenziaga, Ekiza
      Midfield: David López, De Marcos, Gabilondo, Susaeta, Orbaiz, Gurpegi, Javi Martínez, Muniain 
      Attack: Toquero, Llorente, Díaz de Cerio

      Valencia CF on the other hand are still in 3rd position after Villarreal also slipped up last week and failed to converge on Valencia's draw. Valencia is only 2 points above Villarreal and the fight for third spot seems like it will be a long one.

      Getting a positive result against Atletico Bilbao is crucial as Valencia CF has some very tough matches after that with the likes of Barcelona, R. Madrid, Sevilla and Villarreal. Having a points cushion to fall back to in case Valencia CF looses points against Barcelona and R. Madrid is the plan and of course Valencia CF also needs to bounce back after last week's draw against Gijon.

      Aduriz got injured last match and he is out of the squad for at least 10 more days, even though he has made faster progress than thought. David Albelda is training steadily alone with a physiotherapist, but still has 2 weeks or more for full recovery.
      Mehmet Topal was a scare after a small injury, but he is now training normally with the rest of the squad and is probably going to be available for selection.
      Miguel Brito is the dark spot this week as he has been suspended indefenaetly after coming to training 80 minutes later. He is going to miss the match against Bilbao due to his suspension and is going to train alone from now on until the suspension if lifted. This bad news comes as Valencia CF is playing some crucial matches these next few weeks.

      Valencia CF squad:
      Goalkeepers: César, Guaita.
      Defense: Bruno, Dealbert, David Navarro, Stankevicius, Ricardo Costa, Mathieu, Jordi Alba.
      Midfield: Maduro, Topal, Tino Costa, Éver, Joaquín, Pablo, Mata, Vicente.
      Attack: Isco, Jonas, Soldado.

      Valencia CF Technical:
      Formation: 4-2-3-1
      Line up: Guaita; Bruno, Stanke, R. Costa, Mathieu; Banega, Topal, Mata, Tino; Pablo, Soldado
      Tactics: Medium attacking frequency from the wings, Medium defensive line and opposing field pressure, deep zone defensive midfielder, man marking on Fernando Llorente.
      This formation seems the most logical to me now that Mata is back and is a bit more secure than the 4-4-2 as we have 2 defensive midfielders to cover in defense.

      Result prediction:
      Atletico Bilbao 1-2 Valencia CF
      I'm not going to make the same mistake again predicting big wins for Valencia CF as the result always comes back to haunt me with draws or losses. This time I predict a much tighter match and since Bilbao play at home they are bound to score, but I think Valencia have enough skill to score twice and win the match.

      Wednesday, February 23, 2011

      Stankevicious future to be resolved in the next few weeks.

      Well Sampdoria now seem to want Stankevicious back to their squad and have made their stance public, saying they want to extend his contract and hoping that Valencia won't exercise the option to purchase the Lithuanian for 1.5 million euros.

      Stankevicious seems to have become the standard player alongside Ricardo Costa in defense for the past few weeks and is playing reasonably well. I have him rated at 5.5 so far in the season, although there are 2 marks seriously lowering his rank, which he got after making huge mistakes in 2 matches obviously. Otherwise he has been stable enough.

      Since Sampdoria want Stankevicious back his agent will come to Valencia in a few weeks to ask about Valencia's intentions with the players and if they are going to purchase him or not.

      Valencia currently has Navarro, R. Costa, Dealbert and Stankevicious as center backs, but here is also Maduro who can also play at that position and in the summer Adil Rami is going to transfer to Valencia.

      The question now is you keep Stankevicious and if yes that means at least one central defender must leave, in which case the likeliest would be Dealbert.

      The Valencia staff certainly has some tough decisions to make and I can only hope Llorente makes the best decision for the club as he has been doing so far.

      Saturday, February 19, 2011

      Valencia CF 0-0 Sporting Gijon - Match Report

      Valencia CF match against Sporting ended in a draw, but it was a tough and competitive match where no matter that Valencia CF had a ton of possession it couldn't really do much in front of Sporting goal.
      This leaves Valencia CF at 3 points ahead of Villarreal and basically every VCF fan will be hoping they loose, so Valencia CF can stay 3 points clear of them.

      Edit: Well I don't know where to start, I guess at the beginning makes sense but its like having no point to start. Anyways lets just say that Valencia had all the possession they wanted from the start, as Gijon were more than happy to just sit back and defend.

      Sporting Gijon formation was essentially this: 5-3-1-1, with the most forward player still playing deep in his own half, in other words its as defensive as it gets, 10 players behind the goal, etc... This was of course expected and Valencia CF should have countered it.

      Now this draw in essense is not that bad, since Barcelona also failed to beat Sporting Gijon at home and in fact they actually chased a draw from 80 minutes, so lets not take away from Gijon great play, and lets not make Valencia players look like the worst players on the planet.

      Yes there were individual mistakes, missed passes and crosses, bad judgements, but Sporting played really well in defense and against these kind of teams that put 10 men behind the goal its always going to be tough.

      What I didn't like about this match was that Emery used the same players that played just 4 days ago in a tough champions league match against Schalke 04 and there was another formation used.

      So Emery played the fatigued players, plus in  a different formation. It was obvious Valencia was going to struggle to win, but I was hoping Sporting slip up, some individual genius goal happens or stuff like that. but it wasn't to be.

      If I was the coach this is the formation and line-up I would have played:
      4-4-2: Guaita; Bruno, Stankevicous, R.Costa, Mathieu; Pablo, Maduro, Banega, Vicente; Jonas, Soldado.
      First I would replace as much of the players that played against Schalke, this means I would have rested Miguel, Navarro, Joaquin, Topal, Tino, Chori and Aduriz. You can make a case about resting Mathieu also, but he did not play the match before the champions league, so I expect him to be fitter.

      The other thing is that I would fall back to our familiar 4-4-2 formation, this allows the players to play comfortably as they are used to it and we also have 2 strikers up front, which means we have better penetration in the Sporting penalty area.

      That is about how I would play, but lets return to the match and wrap this up. In essense Valencia CF had 70% possession, but can only manage several shots off target and only 2 shots on target in the whole match.
      There were also 4-5 chances, that weren't even very dangerous, but we'll still cont them.

      Sporting Gijon defense did great, Valencia players did somewhat poorly and you have the final result of 0-0.

      Technical Details:
      Valencia CF (0): Guaita; Miguel, Stankevicius, R. Costa, Mathieu; Topal, T. Costa; Joaquín, Domínguez (Soldado, min. 54), Mata (Pablo Hernández, min. 70); Aduriz (Jonás, min. 77).

      Sporting Gijón (0): Cuéllar; Lora, Botía, Iván Hernández, Canella; Eguren; De las cuevas (Novo, min. 82), Cases, André Castro, Diego Castro (José Ángel, min. 89); Sangoy (Bilic, min. 61).

      Player Ratings:
      Guaita 6 - Did not have much to do, apart from few crosses here and there it was an easy match for Guaita.
      Miguel 6.5 - Went forward the whole time, linked up well with Topal and anyone in the midfield and had 3 interventions to deny Sporting any opportunity.
      Stankevicious 6 - Was not really tested, made few tackles though. His crossing was way off in this match.
      R. Costa 6 - Same as Stankevicous.
      Mathieu 6 - Worked hard in offense, disposed any threat on his side, no matter how rare that was.
      Joaquin 5.5 - Failed to provide even one decent cross or one accurate pass, from start his passing and crossing were off and did not improve through the whole match. Had two good runs, but again no final ball.
      Topal 7 - Best player on the field, served as deep laying midfielder, playmaker, hard man and busy man as he was responsible for covering for the defense, attacking, spreading the ball, linking up play, etc...
      Tino 5.5 - Hard working and full of energy as always but absolutely failed to contribute anything.
      Mata 5.5 - The most creative player on the field, though spend more time in the middle than on the left wing and reduced Valencia's field of play as Mathieu couldn't attack on his own on the left.
      Chori 5 - Similar to Mata and Joaquin in that he missed all his crosses, got to bad positions at the bad times and could not assert his influence on the proceedings.
      Aduriz 3 - This is Aduriz second match he has performed so poorly, either he is fatigued or is totally out of form.
      Subs:
      Soldado 6 - Added some urgency to the attack and brought much needed pace into attack, but ultimatelly failed to score a goal.
      Pablo 6 - A little bit better than Mata or Joaquin, but as the English commentator said, he was way too predictable with his moves.
      Jonas 6 - Probably not enough time, but he did have a good shot at goal after dribbling past two Sporting defenders. Also its his first play for Valencia so lets hope he keeps getting better and hopefully scoring many goals for Valencia.

      Friday, February 18, 2011

      Valencia CF vs Sporting Gijon - Match Preview

      Its time for Valencia CF to focus once again on the Spanish championship after the Champions League first leg matches finished. It wasn't the best result for Valencia CF, but it wasn't the worst either and scoring just one goal on the return leg will reset the tie and from there on its anybody's game. But first Valencia CF host Sporting Gijon at the Mestalla and will look to extend their lead over Villarreal with a win on Saturday and sweet 3 points.

      Valencia CF as you all know is 3rd in the standings with 47 points, 2 points more than 4th placed Villarreal. Rival teams and the ones that usually fight with Valencia over champions league spots like Sevilla and Atletico Madrid are right now pretty far off and their troubles don't seem like they are about to stop, so Valencia is as safe as it gets from that regard. A bit of problem can potentially cause the surge that Bilbao has, though they lost their last match so its possible they are going to slump and Espanyol has also lost some ground in recent weeks so should Valencia CF win tomorrow its going to be in a great position.

      Cezar Sanchez Valencia CF goalkeeper has recovered one week ago and even featured as a substitute in the champions league match against Schalke 04.
      Moya though is still injured, although he is also close to recovering, Albelda is still injured, while Mata has been fit for some time now and he is also likely to feature in the first team against Sporting Gijon.

      Valencia CF shouldn't take Sporting lightly as they are coming from a draw against Barcelona a feat little teams can achieve. In fact Sporting had the lead over Barcelona for 80 minutes of the match, until Villa saved them with a wonderful lob over the goalkeeper and into the net.

      Valencia CF official squad:
      Goalkeepers: Guaita y César.
      Defense: Miguel, Bruno, Ricardo Costa, Stankevicius, David Navarro y Mathieu.
      Midfield: Topal, Tino Costa, Éver, Joaquín, Pablo y Mata.
      Attack: Jonas, Aduriz, Domínguez y Soldado.

      Sporting Gijon is sitting at 16th place on the table with only 23 points, just 1 point more above the relegation zone and this means they will be fighting till the end of the season to stay in Primera Division.
      Sporting Gijon is a good team though and a very solid one when motivated as seen in their last match where they almost beat Barcelona, but in the end only managed a draw, which is also a feat of itself as barely any team can get a positive result against Barcelona.

      Sporting top goalscorer is Diego Castro Gimenez with 8 goals scored and he is also their best player with his 8 goals, 2 assists and the one most useful in midfield, so Valencia CF will need to focus on this guy if they are to win the midfield battle and also stop Sporting Gijon mounting serious attacks towards Guaita's goal.

      Sporting Gijon official squad: to be announced...


      Valencia CF Technical:
      Formation: 4-4-2
      Line up: Guaita; Miguel, Stanke, R. Costa, Mathieu; Pablo, Topal, Tino, Mata; Soldado, Aduriz
      Tactics: High attacking frequency from the wings, high defensive line and opposing field pressure, deep zone defensive midfielder, mostly high crosses, man marking on Diego Castro.

      With the players Emery has chosen to feature in this match its likely that the team will start with the 4-4-2 formation. The tactics will be the familiar ones for 4-4-2 with the added bonus of Diego Castro probably being man marked. The three things Emery must decide is whether to start Banega or Tino with midfield alongside Topal, whether to start Mata or Pablo on the left and whether to include Jonas as starter or not.

      Result prediction:
      Valencia CF 3-1 Sporting Gijon
      Usually when I predict Valencia to win with more than 2 goals all hell breaks loose and Valencia end up loosing. Hopefully though this is not the case tomorrow or else I'll just predict Valencia loosing every match and in reality that would mean win in every match.
      But seriously though I think its time for Valencia to shine and score more than 2 goals. Yes Sporting is a tough opponent, but who isn't? This is the time for Valencia to win with a lot of goals scored and the players have the ability to do so, but the question is do they have the belief?